I think this discussion should be ended. We all know that, using animals for some kind of pleasure is wrong exactly. I think it is also a real sin. We dont think it is acceptable in ethics. But we like that,and we do or watch this kind of things altough we know it is wrong. This forum is not for discussing ethics in fetishes.. People kill animals to eat, to wear leather, etc.... If you ask me,i would say,these are wrong too. And anybody, please dont tell us using animals for your own pleasure is wrong! We all know that.But we like it also..